semi wadcutter vs round nose

From my .38spl experience, the hollow base wadcutter bullet easily gave excellent accuracy, no doubt about it. At 1/8 deeper, 16,100 psi. Just be sure they understand they must make use of the tack-driving accuracy that wadcutters offer. Bought a box to use for target shooting (warm up round) with my Ruger LCR. Since reloads are a statistical rarity in armed citizen confrontations, this limitation might not be as significant as it first appears, but its still an important consideration when choosing wadcutters for defense. Regained popularity due to small concealable revolvers. "You've got to stand from something, or you will fall for anything.". Whats not to like about that. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, troubleshooting, accessories, classifieds, and more! [5], The Keith-style SWC has been taken even further, to produce designs that are nearly wadcutters in shape (D), but are intended for large game hunting with handguns. Semi-wadcutters, however, can be more reliable in pistols and can sometimes be . Actually, the hardest part of any shooting is figuring out what needs to happen between the ears, which is why I check into this forum occasionally. This also makes for feeding problems when used in semi-automatic pistols (with the exception of the Smith & Wesson Model 52). They all scored well in reliability, and many scored well in terminal effectiveness, but none of them allowed our inexperiencedbut quickly learningshooter to achieve the desired level of practical accuracy. Absolutely not. Factory wadcutters offer reliable ignition and operation in a revolver. i don't notice much difference between SWC or FMJ. Thanks Mark! The non-bullet nerds wont appreciate the brilliance, but I do! A raccoon might be a pretty meaningful test medium They are tough critters. Youve given great advice and information. They took the old reversed hollow-base wadcutter, put a jacket on it, tuned the jacket for consistent expansion, and then loaded it to normal .38 Special performance, not wadcutter performance. In my 3 SP101, it is only about an inch low at about 7 yards. Good show with helping the shooter pick a load that works, NOT one that is simply the best from a gun magazine page advertisement. Its meplat is sharp and it is hard cast from the Cramer (sp?) Why would we let them have guns?" I'm new to revolvers and got a SW 686 a few months ago. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. I have learned a lot from RevoverGuy. My suggestion is to step up to a 158 grain cast semi-wad cutter with a bit more velocity. However as a couple other members pointed out I've switched over to the RNFP in 200gr. You can make excuses or you can make ready. For progressive reloaders with an automated bullet feed, the double-end wadcutter (DEWC) was designed, simply a cylinder beveled on each end. SWC fly better at the longer ranges, 35 yds and further. Why am I not carrying this wonder-round? Hatman, thank you very much for the kind words. Typically the velocity in 6 revolver barrels, or in the 5 barrel of the much-admired S&W 52 semi-auto pistol, was around 750800 fps. easily changed ramp.) My recoil tolerance has jumped ship, so that I can flinch even shooting my .22 rifles. Where a rounded tip would slide through a target, the flat tip ("meplat") punches a big hole. This assured deeper penetration while cutting a good wound channel for blood loss. but the way i shoot, i don't think it'll help me out . Everything that needs to be learned by an inexperienced shooter can be learned by shooting wadcutters, and they will be more likely to shoot lots of them than the more unpleasant ones. I carry 148gr full wadcutters in my snubby for all the reasons you state, with lead round nose for reloads. I have a Ruger LCR 327 for myself and possibly my wife. Some wadcutters have a flat base, but bullets with a hollow base are probably more common. M36. . I use this load in a GP-100, 686, and 640. Ive bought into it. The original load, a lead round-nose 158-grain bullet, was marginal as a stopper. This allows me to load an almost full dia. Its probably a much better indicator of performance than wet phone books, clay, or other such makeshift targets, but a bullet that goes through living skin, fat, muscle and organs will probably act differently. Sign-up now to get more revolver content every Wednesday! However, for typical ranking, I'd go RN (lead or jacketed), SWCs, then JHP's. Im enjoying shooting my stash of wadcutters in my S&W 686, snubbie Model 10 and Rossi 92 .357 carbine. Why would you use a wadcutter? Display as a link instead, Learn how your comment data is processed. I think the real reason the bullseye shooters liked the bullet is you could get less recoil( due to less weight) and still get flatter trajectories than the 230 for their 50 yard targets. If you shoot indoors, stay away from lead, you'll gag at the line and so will the SO's. Not only that, but his open carry sword got used to separate his head from his body. Talk about a tough critter. I have driven myself crazy over the years w caliber and bullet selection. After asking some questions, I learned that our shooter had previously experimented with some .38 Special +P, 125 grain loads and things didnt go so well. To protect the privacy and security of winners, names will not be made public. Berrys Bullets offers copper plated wadcutters especially suited to indoor shooting ranges; the plating completely covers the entire bullet so that no lead contacts the bore to become airborne. The wide nose is less prone to deformation than a narrow nose, allowing the bullet to keep its shape and continue to penetrate even if it encounters bone. Some small game hunters utilize the hollow point semi-wadcutter (l.), and it performs on paper like the SWC (r.). Haha, thanks for the encouragement to others to support us! They run hotter (per my chronograph) than typical 148 grain wadcutters, but are not true magnum loads. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. A wadcutter is a pistol bullet with a completely flat face. Lead Round Nose. In fact, several credible sources have told me that the really switched on officers in many Southern California agencies would load their duty guns with 148 grain wadcutters in lieu of the issued, 158 grain round nose lead, because they were more effective at stopping bad guys. Higher quality bullets, even lead like Oregon Trail, show very consistent results between RN, WC and SWC designs. Be sure to subscribe to his show: the Big Game Hunting Podcast. Like others have stated and for what its worth, I dont think Im lacking self defense capabilities by carrying the lowly wadcutter either. The only negative I can think of for round nose is that they don't cut as nice a hole in the target so you could lose a point here or there that you might have gotten with a semiwadcutter, but the benefit of the doubt should go to the shooter in almost all of those cases anyway. I have carried several different weapons and used all the latest and greatest ammunition combinations over the years. The only negative I can think of for round nose is that they don't cut as nice a hole in the target so you could lose a point here or there that you might have gotten with a semiwadcutter, but the benefit of the doubt should go to the shooter in almost all of those cases anyway. Also, is there any real difference in shooting lead versus shooting plated FMJ? A semi-wadcutter bullet has a cylindrical body. Now, around our property I carry either Buffalo Bore or Underwood .38 special 150gr hard cast wadcutters. Some of the low recoil hollowpoints that are commonly touted as solutions for recoil-sensitive shooters were considered, but found to be lacking. I know youre a responsible shooter and value safety like we do. 25 yard pistol range. Major sigh. The large hollow base expanded from the gas pressure to tightly engage the rifling, enhancing accuracy. Winners will be notified by certified mail on official letterhead. I cannot advise you or answer your legal questions. Thanks for a great article Mike! Factory Remington wadcutters give about 700 fps in the snub and about 750 fps in the 4-inch pencil barrel, and shoot to the fixed sights. Unlike autoloaders that basically need a round nose fmj bullet or something that tries to simulate it. "We don't let them have ideas. Poly-case ammunition and copper solids offer excellent penetration. I've read about hand-loaders taking hollow-base wadcutter bullets and seating them upside down for use as self-defense ammunition, but results were often erratic. Excellent, timely and informative article! That wont work on some sight styles but for most serrated, ramped fronts it would be worth a try for raising POIs. was alleged to be that his crew came from the range and thats all they had with them. Pressure is also increased by deep seating of bullets. Revolvers. While probably not the equivalent in terms of lethality of a 125 grain HP screaming along at 1400 fps, I find them to be shootable and accurate. Those were hunting when I was a kid, and as you might imagine, were almost always head shots on a treed raccoon. Your email address will not be published. All entries must be received by giveaway end date. If, for some reason, your day has taken the worlds most unlikely turn and youre having to reload a small defensive revolver in a hurry, wadcutters are not your best friend. Terminal Effectiveness. I can tell you this from personal experience, this round woks very well against raccoons. (IV) Winners must undergo a background check and comply with all other federal, state and local laws. Our shooters formerly tight, well-centered groups turned into shotgun patterns with a bunch of low, 6 OClock hits that betrayed some recoil anticipation. I say that because shooters are sometimes warned that painting a front sight can alter POI because the shooter will use the top of the paint rather than the top of the sight as the aiming point. Chief among them is ease of reloading. We love these guns and were having a great time writing about them. The ammo issued that day was PMC 158gr +P FMJ. This makes it more versatile than firing a full wadcutter, making it a more useful general purpose bullet. Mike (nMW), I wonder if the HST didnt open up at all before it exited? The shooter admitted to being uncomfortable with the recoil, and had left the majority of the box of +Ps unfired. Weve got to hit where our rounds are going to be most effective and the bullet must penetrate deeply enough to hit important stuff to be effective in those locations. It seems FBI Load is most commonly used. Box 1926, Escondido, CA 92033. However, if I could get a much better pricing deal on LRN, I wouldn't hesitate to grab them of LSWC. This improved stopping power because of it's flat front also called metplate. $50 spent at your gunsmith can make your life easier. The first question were going to answer is what is a wadcutter? Thats easy. These loads will generally expand more, and deliver more energy to the target, even after going through heavy clothing. DISCLAIMER: All information posted by horsesoldier03 is strickly MY HUMBLE OPINION! As a result, full wadcutter bullets are almost always used in revolvers, with .38 Special being the most common caliber. As you pointed out, good luck getting away with that today. Im not sure that a little more exposed lead would be a sufficient safeguard to prevent someone like that from committing an error. JavaScript is disabled. As a reload, I like the 160gr RN Flat, loaded to the same power level. Standard pressure or +P? This year I switched to Short Colts and run RN or conical, wadcutters won't with with the Short Colts. Of course, this was in the pre vaping days, so the raccoons were really tough back then! Right. Associated taxes and fees will be the responsibility of the winner. Employees and agents of Publishers Development Corp. are not eligible. Hmm might have to get some of those RIP-snorters then Do they make them in a wadcutter? This is not just a measure of raw precision, but of control. A few .38 Special cartridges, from left: 148-gr. SWC .38s are not bad for self defense. An inch at 7 for the 3, so what about at 25? only once in a blue moon will an old fart show up with smokey cast lead semi wadcutters at our match.. being a realist, how would just the mere shape of a bullet contribute to the super accurate myths of the SWC? Do you shoot these in small or medium frame guns? (III) Giveaway winner(s) chosen by random drawing. I find that full-magnum loads in the 640 arent much fun. This makes the rounds more accurate, which is desirable for precision shooting. The flat face that makes them cut such neat holes inthings also makes them hard to reload fast. Greyson, Im curious . Along with this thought, I confess to shooting a WFN lead boolit loading of the 180gr variety in my revolvers, simply because it is VERY controllable in my revolvers for me, along with being more accurate than I am on occasion. The most powerful and capable bullet does you no good if you cant connect with it, eh? However, the wadcutter can also do things that they cant. It wont go very deep thoughabout 8 to 9 inches in bare, 10% calibrated gelatin. Throated, reamed, gutted (threw away cast ignition parts) and put on a nice set of grips. Thanks for all the info! Velocity, type of clothing worn, whether hitting meat or bone, etc. Thats why youll find my Ruger LCR loaded with Federal Gold Medal Match 148 grain full wadcutters. The solution was the .38 Special, 148 grain wadcutter. Coltlover, I'm also migrating towards the 185 grs. It's the closest to any ordinary flat point bullet so, it's probably going to be stated as the best one for hunting. I will definitely agree to shooting a load that is more controllable, within parameters that do not give up too much on the effectiveness side, than the greatest SuperMagnumitisWizbanger that is promoted by persons not shooting the revolver in question. The better question should have been, WHO does she know? Revolver Guy Mike. Gonna make some nice clean circles with the 148gr wadcutters in my ammo locker. Thank you again for your work and keeping revolvers alive! shes just a girl. Jacketed or clad (electroplated) WCs typically dont have need of the grooves, though sometimes the noses may sport some manner of a crimping groove. Plating is much thinner and won't withstand much higher velocities than plain (soft) lead, but will cut down on airborne lead particles and smoke upon firing, making it better indoor range ammo. It seems to me that the larger meplat of the RF would make it a better stopper, for either 4-legged or 2-legged animals. Part of this confession is that I fall into the category of belief in heavy for caliber bullets (at moderate velocities) can be shot easier, more controlled, and deliver more energy in the target when needed, than a light bullet driven hard and fast.which results in more blast and recoil in the same revolver in my experience. Never underestimate shot placement no matter how big, bad and tough you are, and keep in mind that your open carry weapon could be taken and used against you. The 148 grain wadcutter is as soft-shooting as it gets in .38 Special. Ive heard good things about Buffalo Bore and Underwood, and think a hard cast bullet makes a lot of sense in this role, even if the gunshop commandos sneer at it. Thanks for your coverage of this fine design. For the target shooter this load had it all; extreme accuracy, soft recoil and low cost. Like Wheel Gun Judy, I can hit what Im aiming at relatively quickly. lead wadcutter; 158-gr. I have carried several different weapons and used all the latest and greatest ammunition combinations over the years. as long as i can get it in the A zone at 25 yards free hand, thats all i ask . Revenge travel: Making up for lost time, but at what cost? Lots of wisdom here for all who favor small revolvers; consider giving wadcutters a serious look. Wadcutters, semi wadcutters, and the like arent as sexy, and sure, they dont exhibit the same theoretical damage to soft tissue in an ideal situation as a high tech hollow point. For years, the working load was a soft lead, cast or swaged 148-gr. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. One last question. With a 2.7-gr. For defence purposes, it's a different story. I am PROUD to shoot wheel guns. Theres another type of wadcutter projectile, the semi-wadcutter. The fact that wadcutters are controllable in a 12-16 ounce revolver is huge. The ragged holes typically left in paper targets by standard profile bullets can be difficult to score when they land close to a targets scoring rings, and can cost bullseye shooters some points. It just took a long time to develop something better and get it out where it could be tested. BrianEnos.com Reliability. As you pointed out, they do pretty much everything you could want (except expand, or course) and they have the added benefit, at least in the Lucky Gunner test, of maintaining very consistent performance out of different barrel lengths if that is relevant for someone. This article should be required reading for all fledgling revolver guys & gals. Snubbies are easier to carry, but they extract a cost in velocity. But the question is, what is the best for your application, accuracy and cost considerations? Two asides: I was trained at the FLETC in handgun and combat shotgun by Jim Cirillo. The added cross-sectional density made the bullet stable over greater range, also. The more I think about this subject, the more I am inclined to switch to wadcutters. I sent him a photo of my first combo .38 Special wadcutter and 130 gr. Justin. Re: 38 Special Factory 158gr Lead Semi-Wadcutter or Lead Round Nose For Distinguished Revolver. Load your guns cylinder with wadcutters for carry, but choose a load with a more friendly ogive for your speedloader or ammunition strip. Bullets do unpredictable things in living targets, so picking a good test medium is very difficult, but I think the gelatin is about as good as it gets right nowespecially if we combine it with data gleaned from real shootings. Thanks for mentioning that. (I) Giveaway ends March 20, 2022. Your Industry Needs YOUR Expert Voice When I was snubby shopping one of the big requirements for me was a replaceable front sight blade, so I could adjust the sight with a file and not be stuck with the decision forever. Using wadcutters would make it a lot more economical to have my practice and carry loads be the exact same thing. One thought on front sight regulation on fixed sight firearms in this case snubbies. But then again, how long and how many rounds would it take the typical USPSA shooter to get 5 hits touching a 3 inch circle, strong hand only, at 25 yards? When we looked at the most likely jacketed hollowpoint options in .38 Special and .357 Magnum, none of them fared well when we measured them against these priorities for our friend. A few .38 Special cartridges, from left: 148-gr. Wadcutter. The FBI protocol also penalizes a bullet that penetrates too deeply. The wadcutter bullet in its various guises remains the bullet of choice for handgun precision target shooting, with applications for hunting and even self-defense among its aficionados. Some of you are probably bullet nerds too. The bullet nerds were trying to be helpful, but they didnt do a very good job of reading the situation and tailoring their advice for our friend. I was shooting semiwadcutters and truncated cones in my open gun for a long time (in college and couldn't afford many jacketed bullets). If youre not a patron, please consider supporting us we cant do this work, at this level, without your continued support. . They are probably closer to 158 .38 Special +P velocities, i.e. I know, it sounds like the most basic common-sense advice youve ever heard. The same goes for cast lead SWC's. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It shoots well (sized .359) in every .38/.357 I have. 38 , 9mm 45 acp all work if you are willing to practice with them. Choices for .38 Special ammo breaks down in a three-axis decision making tree. Some loads (like Federals 9BPLEa 115 grain, 9mm+P+ jacketed hollowpoint) regularly fail to meet the 12 gelatin penetration standard, yet have excellent track records in actual police shootings. Factory warranties may apply in some cases. A .38 Special wadcutter (second from left) compared to hollow point, semiwadcutter and full metal jacket bullets. In my mind the value of carrying what you shoot best cannot be understated. Contest open to U.S. residents only. Contest open to U.S. residents only. No purchase necessary. Now there is a challenge for Paul. When I first considered it, I found some gel tests (Lucky Gunner, I believe) and was surprised that they penetrated more than deep enough. The first priority of defensive ammunition is reliability. A high speed would be something like the Super Vel Super Snubbie load, which features a 90-grain bullet at over 1,200 real fps out of a snubbie, and recoil to go with it. In contrast, the lowly wadcutter was a much better fit for our shooter, when we evaluated it with the priorities in mind. Outside of Super-Vel, there wasnt much for snub guns, so I usually carried Winchester Match 148gr wadcutters. The flat shape of the nose is the primary feature of the wadcutter. The three projectiles penetrated 15.0, 16.0 and 16.5 inches with minimal expansion (.405, .401, and .386, respectively), easily besting a host of 90, 110, 125 and 130 grain projectiles that were fired alongside it, which penetrated around 9 inches, on average; 4. Indeed! This makes for EDC problems. It surprised even me. Huge sigh. Does anyone have any practical experience with the relative "smack" differences between a traditional semi-wadcutter bullet and the newer styles called the RF, or round, flat nose bullets? Thanks LB! Ammunition has changed very much since the 80,s and 90,s. Bullets that penetrate more than 18 inches in calibrated gelatin are deemed undesirable, since theyre considered inefficient and may overpenetrate the target, endangering an innocent. We hasten to note thiswas a different era, and policy violations of this type were handled much differently than they would be todaythis is not a recommended practice for todays officers, who serve in a much different legal environment. Full Metal Jacket. Truth be told, he used more colorful language than Im using .. so thats how I knew he didnt think highly of my choice. But, if you want the benefits of extra pressure you need extra barrel length. Himmelwrights 1916 Pistol and Revolver Shooting. All the others were right on at about 738-755. From the looks of your chart, my cop friend was in the ballpark. In the new FBI test protocol, a handgun bullet was evaluated for its ability to penetrate, expand, and retain weight after being fired through a series of intermediate barriers into calibrated gelatin. A VERY appropriate writeup for a category of gun that is one of the more difficult to master the snubbie. Yes, thats a good observation, indeed. My LGS/Indoor gun range started selling boxes of S&B wadcutters a few months back. Ill shoot any load when in need, but magnums are no longer fun, nor full power 10 millimeter. OK, it seems as if the SWC shooters like the holes. Hoo boy, words of wisdom there, Mike NmW! Notice I said most and usually. Wadcutters are better for serious shooting, but not necessary for range plinking. Your link has been automatically embedded. FMJ target. All my other guns are all steel and +p rated. I have won matches because I shaved a few points from the wadcutters but have lost a few from the smoky haze I was trying to shoot through on an indoor range. I only remember seeing RNL. That in turn would avoid issues of differing points of impact and the like. It was earth-shattering in 1898, when invented, but even before WWII we knew better. Thanks for adding it to the conversation. The flat meplat and square shoulders of the wadcutters were thought to deliver greater shock and create more trauma than the rounded profile bullets with their pointy noses. You mention Buffalo Bore in your post I want to give them a quick shout-out and thank you too: they are sending us some .357 ammo for an exciting review we have in the works (hint: it has a 16.5 barrel!).

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